INTERVIEW
Gert Rappenecker talking to Beate Engel (October 2001)
Translation Jeremy Gaines

In both sculpture and painting you have repeatedly undermined the dividing lines between traditional media and motifs. The way you critically approached landscape painting, for example, attests to a highly ambivalent relationship to the Romantic notion of nature. What does "landscape" mean for you?

The way I think and feel has evolved through my urban surroundings. I do not have an intensive relationship to nature, even if I can well appreciate it. For me, it has always had the feel of an abandoned home, a feeling you think you have got over, a home you really miss and to which you can no longer return. For me, landscape is a highly abstract phenomenon that is well suited as the screen onto which to project private and public desires. You expect to find freedom, happiness, power, an intact world, eternity in the distance - desires which are above all engendered by the media. The landscape is thus a great remake, where hopes and ideals come together in concentrated form on the horizon. Somehow I see all my work as part of this landscape.

You did not take real natural landscapes as the starting point for your landscape pictures but instead media-based idealized images from tourist brochures, which you then photocopied and painted over in black and white. A renunciation of the true and with the notion of originality with which "nature" is still connoted?

The concept of nature is now no longer conceivable without the image of it in the media or the phenomenon of mass tourism. This becomes very evident with landscape events such as the Grand Canyon, Monument Valley or the Niagara Falls. In the 19th century, for his breathtaking painting "Niagara Falls" Frederick Church chose exactly the selfsame spot as that which countless tourists, landscape and ad photographers take in order to shoot their pictures. My version of Niagara in the "Landscapes" series is based on this perspective. In other words, there seems to be an optimal angle for the sublime most of us have adopted on several occasions in a virtual vein before actually experiencing the landscape "in reality".

Your viewpoint is reflective and distanced. Paradoxically, owing to the detachment from the subject and your processing of the respective images with the various means of technical and manual reproduction available "beautiful" pictures nevertheless arise which at any rate closely approximate the classical canon of the sublime and the original.

Both in my pictures and in the media the focus is on generating desires. The goal of the media is sales successes. To this end, "beautiful" images are created. I would lie were I to say that they leave me completely cold. Moreover, I have worked for years now as a model and actor in ads and ad commercials, which has given me an internal perspective as it were on this seductive system. I use these "beautiful" images as part of my artistic strategy. I initially wish to seduce the viewers and thus focus at first on the origin of my pictures. I take a detour through partial affirmation, but aim to achieve a calm if clear breach with the original contents. To this end I hunt out material that is adequate to the respective theme and suitable methods for transforming it. I exclude nothing, neither techniques that have a strong tradition in art history nor kitsch nor the deceitful beauty of advertising. I am interested in those transpositions and techniques of the media that serve to create distance. To my mind, distance strengthens the aura.

So you still believe in the aura of images?

Yes, although I deny the autonomy of the artwork I believe in an aura, an ability of the image to have an impact beyond all rational perception of it.

....and in the sublime?

I do not lay claim to creating something sublime. However, I have a certain affinity to motifs of the sublime and this is reflected in my choice of themes and the sources I take for images. There is then a link forged between the original image and my image, between the media-based image laden with collective desires and emotions, on the one hand, and my own dreams or fears, on the other. The motifs are hollowed out and yet they are also charged with new meaning. In this way, the subject matter is again given a mystical content - that is incessant interaction.

While your landscape pictures contain no direct visible contemporary elements, the landscapes in your installations, such as "Crater" or "Somewhere not here" allude to contemporary social issues such as consumer reality. Often you make use of quite trivial mass-produced items such as car parts and cooling elements for ice boxes, which you then integrate in settings that seem quite archaic.

To my mind, these products from the world of commodities form a significant part of our reality, our everyday aesthetics. I do not want to consider them in terms of a critique of society or, as regards my supraordinated landscape picture, as technological flotsam as it were that has washed ashore from a foreign world. I initially scrutinize these profane objects to assess their atmospheric and metaphorical qualities, then extract them from their normal context and group them together in a new setting.

These settings in part seem absurd and surreal in the sense of some "chance meeting of a sewing machine and an umbrella on a dissecting table". And yet you combine various different readymades in a way that goes beyond the absence of meaning à la Apollinaire or Duchamp.

There may at first sight be no logical connection between the objects which I place next to one another in my installations. Yet I select them and compose the structures by dint of some intrinsic compulsion. I do not wish to strip things of meaning, as did Duchamp, but by contrast to focus on the contents and relativize conventional meanings, as it were. The installations have a certain associative or narrative value. Often, I take personal experiences and impressions as my starting point without, however, wishing to illustrate them. In the case of "Somewhere not here", for example, the point of departure was a severe car crash.

This autobiographical level dissolves into a highly consistent formal idiom. The stacks and serial positioning of the tires and cooling elements in "Somewhere not here" is reminiscent of positions in the 1960s such as Minimal Art.

In order to articulate these emotional properties at some universally applicable and metaphorical level I draw on the formal idiom of Minimal Art, which, after all, programmatically rejected all forms that were singular or narrative, all illusion and reality outside the artwork itself. However, unlike the proponents of that movement, I always wish to bring my subjective view of things, my own signature and style, to bear.

This is especially discernible in the "Pulps", your series of aluminum blocks with quotes from horoscopes from lifestyle magazines which you have taken apart and then combined anew. These blocks remind me of standard gold bars yet they reveal personal traces of your creative hand, namely the print of your fingers. Is this some allusion to your past as a sculptor?

Yes, I make use of traditional casting techniques, and quote them to a certain degree. I use the sculptural principle at the semantic level, too, by moving from the outside inwards. By reducing, deforming, and segmenting the profane texts, I manage to instill these future-oriented sentences with a strange universal applicability such as in the case of "Certain things have not materialised and possibly they never will." What then hangs on the wall in the form of a sculpture is a verbal torso, blessed by the mass media and given, qua firm sculptural existence, the status of an icon.

In addition to the textual level there is also the acoustic level, as sounds are always a key part of your installations. In the installation "Twilight zone" at Galerie Martina Detterer you opted for fragments cut from film dialogs which emanated from small fog emitters. Your "Crater" installation at Kunsthalle St. Gallen consisted of a circle of windscreens filled up with polystyrene - under which you had buried transistor radios that broadcast hisses and buzzes, "Somewhere not here" is dominated by the beat of a heart which comes from within the towers of tires. Why do you combine these intimate motifs and background noise with technoid and in fact essentially anonymous associations?

I endeavor to subtly shift the levels of reality. Reality, fiction and the private domain converge in this way. I wish to spawn a diffuse state that oscillates between the real and the surreal, an ambivalence of the sensuously tangible and the immaterial. There are references to cosmic, organic areas, but the seismographic oscillations have been manifestly simulated with technical means, the special effects are there for all to see and recognize. In this manner, I create a special atmosphere, an interstice between nature, technology and artificiality.

While Richard Long built his stone circles as references to real landscapes, you create mental topographies or situations that no doubt contain archaic references and yet are clearly contemporary or even futuristic. In your installation "Long way" the beam of a laser pointers served to suggests some quiet, immaterial projection. In "Twilight zone" there is no real lightning field, but luminescent columns of bubbling water, and in "Somewhere not here" there is a sound-sensitive plasma screen in the center of things, embedded in a truck tire buried in gravel - it responds to the sound of the CD-preserved heart beat that fills the room. The plasma screen emits lightning in a way usually used to set the mood in a disco. Is this an ironic commentary on Land Art and its claim to authenticity?

I still find Land Art fascinating when looking back on the 1960s. Without a doubt I draw here and there on Richard Long, Robert Smithson or Walther de Maria. But it is likewise obvious that this form of Romantic imagery is no longer possible. I lock into my current reality by trying to compress the current experience of landscape and regenerate it on a readily tangible scale, "en miniature" so to speak. Here, I make use, among other things, of the aesthetics of Luna Park grounds and the auto dealerships.

Car parts constantly crop up in your work, be it the "Sublime Paintings", which you sprayed with car paint, or your installation in Kunsthalle St. Gallen, where you used windscreens. In his "Mythologies" Roland Barthes termed the auto the "exact equivalent of the great Gothic cathedral, a marvelous creation of the day, devised by unknown artists." What is your personal attitude toward these mobile products of mass society?

The auto is an icon of today, reflecting many of our desires, such as the wish for freedom, a lack of constraints, luxury,... it's a status symbol, a way of cloaking our self. And yet it of course also reflects down to the smallest detail the technological progress achieved by the society of the day. A blind faith in progress is obviously no longer in order, but a certain fascination for autos and other technological achievements is something I would not wish to deny.

In "Somewhere not here" the dynamic drive of technical progress seems to have come to a halt, the Dionysian leisure society to have been suspended. Ilya Kabakov speaks of "frozen elements" when describing his installations. Yet his installations often exhibit a clear decipherable reference to a place. Your "Spare Parts Store" smells authentically of rubber car tires, yet it nevertheless somehow seems to not be of this world, but to exist in a type of vacuum outside space and time, or simply "Somewhere not here". The whole thing reminds me of a scene from a sci-fi film where someone has pressed the pause button. To my mind, these elements of standstill, of indecision, of something beneath the surface that is about to happen make your installations so fascinating.

My installations are constructed, artificial and therefore not even I can decipher them completely. I attempt to ensure a certain irrational dimension which remains intrinsic to them. For this reason they are probably pretty phony.

In your "screen paintings" and film quotations you process points where things change, elements where emotional climaxes or disasters are about to happen... "Somewhere not here", where and what is that? Is it some apocalyptic scenario from the end of time, just before the overkill? Or should I believe the sentence from one of your "Pulps": "This is a time of endings and beginnings but the final outcome will be very positive."?

Even if my works exhibit a certain melancholy, I do not consider the installation scenarios from the end of time but more as the suspension of time, as time lags in which the factual drifts off into the realm of the abstract. Essentially, such a standstill is highly constructive and attractive, as it intensifies the tension as to what is to follow in a dramatic way. And it is charged with potential energy. Like a torso which as a rule is far more dynamic than the sculpted human body as a whole, as the absent limbs offer an infinite variety of possible interpretations.